Topic: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Hello everybody!

What do you think of introducing a second "user collection"?

For explanation:
In a company it would then be possible to have an official QET-, a company-wide and a personal collection. All elements that are published and valid for the entire company (e.g. on a network drive) would then be in the company-wide collection. Then the personal collection would be available on your own computer as a "playground" until these elements are also transferred to the company-wide collection, or even to the QET collection!

On Linux systems such a scenario can be achieved by using symbolic links, but on Win? Some say there are symlinks on win but I haven't seen any! Additionally the creation of symbolic links is often forbidden by company IT...

Regards
  plc-user

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

@plc-user:
Regarding to the use of sym-links in Windows:

On Linux systems such a scenario can be achieved by using symbolic links, but on Win? Some say there are symlinks on win but I haven't seen any! Additionally the creation of symbolic links is often forbidden by company IT...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdevelo … indows-10/

How to use Symlinks

Symlinks are created either using the mklink command or the CreateSymbolicLink API

mklink

    There is no change in how to call mklink.  For users who have Developer Mode enabled, the mklink command will now successfully create a symlink if the user is not running as an administrator.

CreateSymbolicLink

    To enable the new behavior when using the CreateSymbolicLink API, there is an additional dwFlags option you will need to set:

Value     Meaning
SYMBOLIC_LINK_FLAG_ALLOW_UNPRIVILEGED_CREATE

0x2     Specify this flag to allow creation of symbolic links when the process is not elevated

Example Use

In the example below:

    A subfolder folder called “animals” containing three files (cat.txt, dog.txt, and fish.txt)
    (green) The mklink command is executed to create a symlink called “pet.txt” pointing at the “animalsdog.txt” file
    (blue) When the contents of the current folder are listed, the symlink can be seen (yellow)
    (purple) When contents of pet.txt are queried, the content of the referenced file (“dog.txt”) is displayed

Another user collection would definitely have its advantages.

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

BTW, you can change on the fly path to your collections, see
https://download.qelectrotech.org/qet/manual_0.7/build/_images/qet_configure_collections.png

https://download.qelectrotech.org/qet/m … n-settings

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

It's not a bad idea and probably not very difficult to write.
But unfortunately I haven't enough free time to write the big feature of the next release of qet (the terminal strip generator / management).
So even if I'm ok for this feature don't expect to have it and instead try the solution of scoprio or symlink.

Développeur QElectroTech

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Hello Joshua,

I know that the number of active developers in the project is very limited, so i didn't expect this feature to come in on the fast!
(Sorry that I can't help: QT-programming is not on the list of my skills)
I just wanted to get it discussed!

In this thread an additional user-collection is also discussed:
https://qelectrotech.org/forum/viewtopi … 772#p14772
So maybe the numbers of the request and the prospect that QET may/will be used in companies, can cause the topic move up a little on the priority list? nomicons/wink

At work we have to use win and there symlinks are blocked from the IT side (no developer-mode, no administrative rights, etc.).
And the variant with switching the collection "on the fly" seems a bit impractical, when you are "in the flow" of drawing a schematic...

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Ich weiß noch gar nicht, was ich davon halten soll:
Da wird in mehreren Forenbeiträgen der Wunsch nach einer zweiten Benutzer-Sammlung geäußert, aber niemand von den aktuellen Betreuern oder Entwicklern geht auf die Diskussionen ein. Die einzige Reaktion, die kommt: "Schöne Idee, aber ich habe keine Zeit..." und ein "Workaround".

Nach über zwei Jahren spreche ich das Thema nochmal an, und bekomme wieder nur den seinerzeit als "unpraktikabel" bewerteten Workaround zur Antwort.

Dann nehme ich mir die Zeit und implementiere die Funktion, und schon kommt jemand aus der Versenkung aufgetaucht, der seit mehr als zehn Jahren angeblich nichts mehr mit dem Projekt zu tun hat, sich auch nicht an der Diskussion hier beteiligt hat und lehnt das ab!

Merkwürdig!


Aber zurück zum Thema:

Die Tatsache, dass es nur zwei Sammlungen gibt, ist von mehreren Leuten hier im Forum schon als nicht ausreichend angesehen worden!

Meine Idee drei Sammlungen zu haben, ist Folgende:

  • übergeordnete Sammlung mit allgemeingültigen Elektrotechnischen Symbolen oder der offiziellen QET-Sammlung

  • Firmen- oder Benutzer-Sammlung mit speziellen Symbolen, die für die Benutzung in der Firma verwendet werden

  • Spielwiese oder Sammlung "in Entwicklung" für den lokalen Benutzer

Ich hätte die eingefügte "Firmensammlung" auch unterhalb der Benutzersammlung anordnen und als "Spielwiese" oder "in Entwicklung" bezeichnen können. Die Bezeichnung ist aber ziemlich egal: Entscheidend ist die dritte Sammlung!

Im Büro hatte ich schon mit Kollegen die Diskussion: "In Deinem Schaltplan habe ich das Bauteil XY gesehen, das wir in unserer Sammlung noch nicht haben, wo ist das denn?" "Das liegt noch auf meiner lokalen Platte, weil das noch nicht in der offiziellen QET-Sammlung drin ist!" "Die Umschalterei mit den Sammlungen ist doch für die tägliche Arbeit unpraktisch! Da wäre es doch sehr sinnvoll, eine dritte Sammlung zu haben, wo die Firmen-Bauteile drin sind!" "Habe ich bei QET angesprochen, wurde als 'nicht schlechte Idee' bezeichnet, aber sie haben keine Zeit dafür!"


via online-translator:


I still don't know what to make of it:

There are several forum posts expressing the desire for a second user collection, but no one from the current maintainers or developers responds to the discussions. The only response I get is: "Nice idea, but I don't have time..." and a "workaround".

After more than two years, I raise the issue again, and once again only get the workaround that was deemed "impractical" at the time before.

Then I take the time to implement the function, and someone who has supposedly had nothing to do with the project for more than ten years and has not participated in the discussion here comes out of the woodwork and rejects it!

Strange!


But back to the topic:

The fact that there are only two collections has already been considered insufficient by several people here on the forum!

My idea of having three collections is as follows:

  • a superordinate collection with general electrotechnical symbols or the official QET collection

  • Company or user collection with special symbols that are used in the company

  • Playground or collection "under development" for the local user

I could also have placed the inserted "company collection" below the user collection and labelled it "playground" or "under development". But the name doesn't really matter: the third collection is what counts!


I've already had discussions with colleagues in the office:
"I saw component XYZ in your circuit diagram that we don't have in our collection yet, where is it?"
"It's still on my local disc because it's not yet in the official QET collection!"
"Switching between collections is impractical for day-to-day work! It would make a lot of sense to have a third collection that contains the company components!"
"I asked QET about this, they said it was 'not a bad idea', but they don't have time for it!"

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

@plc-user I get your point. and time is the problem for the developers.

Now to solve it.

What is now present in the code?
What do we want?
And how do we want it?

If there is no time for developers, I would like to try it.

but one thing must be clear, is the code stable and can I work on it freely? or is it being worked on?

After all, we don't want to solve a complex git merge!

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Hi,

Your PR has not been rejected (it is still "open" on GitHub) and, as I am writing this message, I still see ONE good reason to accept it (more on that later).
The timing is indeed bad, the explanations provided on this forum could have been more detailed and I understand my intervention upsets you... but those cannot be helped so let us focus on the matter.
I did read your posts on this forum regarding this feature, and I believe you have not explored all the options currently offered by QElectroTech. This was especially reflected by your focus on symlinks (which are one way to get things done but far from being the only way) and the notion that our "workaround" makes you "switch" between collections, which is a misconception.

Essentially, before accepting your PR, we would like to ensure you at least tried the following setup in your company:
https://xavier.kindwolf.org/misc/QElectroTech-enterprise-setup.svg

Basically, the idea is to:

  • copy the QElectroTech official collection to a network share (you can remove categories your company never uses)

  • add your company's elements (typically in a separate directory next to it to keep things clean and tidy)

  • make QElectroTech use that network share as common collection; as mentioned on GitHub, there are several ways to achieve this

That way, end users within your company no longer have to worry about whether an element of yours made its way into the official QElectroTech collection because QElectroTech will show whatever you want it to show (namely "official" elements next to yours).
Technically speaking, the entire setup leverages the fact that collections are just directories: one is meant to be shared, the other is meant to be personal. The QET official collection is just something we provide to fill the shared directory by default.
Since you mentioned the idea of a network share in one of your posts, we believe this setup should be feasible for you. That being said, there may be constraints of yours that we do not see. If so, please explain those extra constraints to us.

The one thing where we still have doubts is performance, since this highly depends on your company's structure (e.g. workstations in Berlin, network drives in Sydney). THIS is the reason that could make the concept of "3rd collection" relevant.

Yet another point we might need to discuss is: if 2 collections are not enough, are 3 actually enough? Should we enable users to add more than one "company collection"? E.g. Service A's collection and Service B's collection?

Gray's Law of Programming:
'n+1' trivial tasks are expected to be accomplished in the same time as 'n' tasks.

Logg's Rebuttal to Gray's Law:
'n+1' trivial tasks take twice as long as 'n' trivial tasks

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

The main problem is not the source code, but that the (old) developers do not see the need for the second user collection and don't (want to?) discuss publicly...

But now back to the technical part:
The source-code is from my point of view stable and a pull-request is available at github.

There is only one point left, where it does not work as expected and explained as first point in this post:
https://qelectrotech.org/forum/viewtopi … 263#p19263 :

In the settings dialogue, the selected path of the company collection is not applied immediately, so that it is necessary to restart QET to apply the change. It is not sufficient to reload the collections.

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

@De-Backer: I thought of you recently, the clocks are perhaps now aligned to push QET towards the Qt6 x version, I also saw and read the hard work of the KDE team to push KF5 towards KF6 .

You are right when you speak with submodules but I am a human being of sometimes narrow-minded nature... with a big heart, you were right all along..

@Plc-user: I have known Xavier for 15 years or more, for me he is a very technically competent guy, a best of the best system engineer and he helps me a lot when I have problems on the servers, I meets regularly especially recently during the transfer of the entire infrastructure to a new host, he is a good man, he is a very great brain..
But I had to argue with him, because you too Plc-user are very dear to me, and you have brought a lot to QET, I don't have time to fight and especially not at the moment, so does my partner sulfur of gors health problem of his mother, please peace in world


Cheers ,
Laurent

I'm tired and go to sleep... no war here, please be happy with QET...

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Was glaubt ihr, in wievielen wirklich großen Firmen mit einer eigenen IT-Abteilung, die sich um jede eingesetzte Software ausgiebig kümmert, QET eingesetzt wird?

Vermutlich nicht viele, da große Firmen besonderen Wert darauf legen, dass die eingesetzte Software aktiv betreut und weiterentwickelt wird, was wir von QET im Moment (und schon seit einiger Zeit) leider nicht behaupten können.

Wahrscheinlich sind es sogar überwiegend kleinere Firmen oder Planungsbüros, die jeweils nur eine begrenzte Anzahl an Ingenieuren haben, die sich um die Erstellung von Schaltplänen kümmern. Hinzu kommt, dass Software zum Erstellen von Schaltplänen oft relativ teuer ist, sodass besonders für kleinere Firmen das Preis-Leistungs-Verhältnis eine hohe Priorität hat. Daher wird Open-Source-Software wohl eher in kleineren bis mittelgroßen Firmen eingesetzt.

Eine Open-Source-Software in einer großen Firma einzusetzen ist bestimmt erstrebenswert und sollte auch bei der Entwicklung der Software beachtet werden, aber die Anforderungen und Wünsche der "Kleinen" darf dabei nicht vernachlässigt werden! (Das erlebe ich bereits bei Kauf-Software zur Genüge!)

Dort will niemand die mitgelieferte Bauteilsammlung separat aussortieren und auf einem Netzlaufwerk zur Verfügung stellen: Es ist meist schon genug Aufwand, die firmenspezifischen Bauteile zu betreuen!
Also wird die Software aus dem Installations-Paket installiert und verwendet. Das Einstellen der Verzeichnispfade ist dann schon ein "lästiges Übel".
Jeder Entwickler, den ich kenne, hat aber immer gerne eine "Spielwiese", auf der er sich mit seinen eigenen Bauteilen beschäftigen kann, bevor sie in die Firmensammlung übernommen werden. (In meinem Büro sind das drei von drei!)

So entstand die Idee und der Wunsch nach einer zweiten Benutzersammlung.

Das Argument "anpassbare Anzahl Benutzersammlungen" zieht meiner Meinung nach überhaupt nicht: Wenn das umgesetzt werden sollte, macht es keinen großen Aufwand, ob man nun 20 oder 30 zusammenhängende Zeilen vom Quellcode ersetzt!


Mit der heutigen Quellcode-Änderung ist auch der letzte bekannte Fehler ausgemerzt und könnte ohne weiteren großen Aufwand übernommen werden.


Wir sollten anderen Forums-Teilnehmern aber auch die Gelegenheit geben, sich zu diesem Thema zu äußern! Zumindest vor zwei Jahren war ich nicht der Einzige, der den Wunsch nach einer zweiten Benutzersammlung hatte...



via Online-Translator:


How many really large companies do you think use QET with their own IT department that looks after all the software they use?

Probably not many, as large companies attach particular importance to actively maintaining and further developing the software they use, which is unfortunately not the case with QET at the moment (and hasn't been for some time).

In fact, it is probably mainly smaller companies or planning offices that only have a limited number of engineers to create circuit diagrams. In addition, software for creating circuit diagrams is often relatively expensive, so that the price-performance ratio is a high priority, especially for smaller companies. Open source software is therefore more likely to be used in small to medium-sized companies.

Using open source software in a large company is certainly desirable and should also be taken into account when developing the software, but the requirements and wishes of the "little ones" must not be neglected! (I have already experienced this enough with purchased software!)

Nobody wants to sort out the supplied component collection separately and make it available on a network drive: It's usually enough effort to look after the company-specific components!
So the software from the installation package is installed and used. Setting the directory paths is then already an "annoying evil".
However, every developer I know always likes to have a "playground" where they can work on their own components before they are transferred to the company collection. (In my office, that's three out of three!)

This gave rise to the idea and the desire for a second user collection.

In my opinion, the argument "customizable number of user collections" doesn't hold water at all: if this were to be implemented, it wouldn't make much difference whether you replace 20 or 30 contiguous lines of source code!

With today's source code change, the last known error has also been eliminated and could be adopted without any further major effort.


But we should also give other forum participants the opportunity to comment on this topic! At least two years ago, I wasn't the only one who wanted a second user collection...

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

plc-user wrote:

Hello everybody!

What do you think of introducing a second "user collection"?

For explanation:
In a company it would then be possible to have an official QET-, a company-wide and a personal collection. All elements that are published and valid for the entire company (e.g. on a network drive) would then be in the company-wide collection. Then the personal collection would be available on your own computer as a "playground" until these elements are also transferred to the company-wide collection, or even to the QET collection!

On Linux systems such a scenario can be achieved by using symbolic links, but on Win? Some say there are symlinks on win but I haven't seen any! Additionally the creation of symbolic links is often forbidden by company IT...

Regards
  plc-user


Now we are talking, this is what I need "This beg the question /request that I would like to save parts outside the elements library folder." but this will works even beter ( if I can export it easely )

So, I didn't read everything, but about the request, I am voting a plus1.

Maybe even unlimited libraries off a kind or per project base so we can export those and send it to a coworker. Look at the Kicad 'manage symbols' dialog with a list of external Libraries of element and then with a export function of the project and elements yes or no included. ( still busy with a recovery project from drawings to make them digital; am at 25% but it could be quicker with some technical help like this. )


About the element editor:
Please make the use of keystroke delete/forward delete equal in use in both editors ( sheet and element editor ).On the Mac it is not used consistent.

Thanks.

QElectroTech V 0.100.0-dev - iMac macOS Monterey 12.6.3 - MacMini macOS Ventura

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Ce matin, j'ai poussé tous les pull request... (Sans vouloir me facher avec Xavier ou toi Plc-user) j' ai profité pour envoyer tous mes paquets Debian unstable/stable, PPA ubuntu, snap, flatpak, Appimage, Windows, OSX intel, OSX arm64..

1er probleme, la collection compagny remplace la collection custom, il suffit dans le gui de definir un nouveau repertoire pour la collection compagny.

Translated:
This morning, I pushed all the pull requests... (Without wanting to get angry with Xavier or you Plc-user) I took the opportunity to send all my debian unstable/stable packages, ubuntu PPA, snap, flatpak, Appimage, Windows, OSX intel, OSX arm64..

1st problem, the company collection replaces the custom collection, you just need to define a new directory for the company collection in the gui.

About the element editor:
Please make the use of keystroke delete/forward delete equal in use in both editors ( sheet and element editor ).On the Mac it is not used consistent.

The diagram editor is still hardcoded since the beginning a long time ago, Joshua rewrote the element editor with the Qt GUI editor for easier maintenance, on Linux, I don't see any difference, on macOS, OS that I barely know as a very young switcher, please blame Apple and not the QET team.

Thanks

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Salut Laurent!

scorpio810 wrote:

1st problem, the company collection replaces the custom collection, you just need to define a new directory for the company collection in the gui.

Fixed with Pull-Request #275

Best regards
  plc-user

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Hallo Plc-user,

merged, thanks.

Uploaded all packages.

Best regards,
Laurent

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

English:
Répertoire de la collection company


---> Company collection directory

Always using the latest development version

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Do you mean upper / lower case?

Post's attachments

Bildschirmfoto_Preferences_CompanyCollection.png, 14.74 kb, 399 x 193
Bildschirmfoto_Preferences_CompanyCollection.png 14.74 kb, 18 downloads since 2023-12-12 

18 (edited by LievenC 2023-12-12 16:22:52)

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

my language setting is english

Post's attachments

Schermafbeelding 2023-12-12 152119.png, 9.48 kb, 411 x 216
Schermafbeelding 2023-12-12 152119.png 9.48 kb, 18 downloads since 2023-12-12 

Always using the latest development version

19 (edited by rvamerongen 2023-12-12 17:22:06)

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

Hi PLC-User

Thank you.

BTW, my user language is Dutch.

Should then be called "Map van de Bedrijfs Collectie".

Actually, it would be better if the sentences were all changed to:

Algemene collectie map
Bedrijf collectie map
Gebruiker collectie map
Gebruiker titelblokken map

But I don't think that's that important for now.

Thanks

Post's attachments

Screenshot 2023-12-12 at 16.15.03.png, 16.76 kb, 279 x 215
Screenshot 2023-12-12 at 16.15.03.png 16.76 kb, 15 downloads since 2023-12-12 

QElectroTech V 0.100.0-dev - iMac macOS Monterey 12.6.3 - MacMini macOS Ventura

20 (edited by plc-user 2023-12-12 18:06:42)

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

@Laurent:

[Edited]
Can it be that there went something wrong with creating and "compiling" TS-files at your side?
In my understanding you wanted to create TS- and QM-Files? Please correct me, if I'm wrong!
The translated texts are available in the German TS-File in the PR.
The QM-File for English in git-repository is different from my locally "compiled" file.
Or should I create a PR with "my" files? You decide!  nomicons/wink

Best regards
  plc-user

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

I have found the solution:
it is not enough to place the new exe file
also the language files need to be replaced

Always using the latest development version

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

https://github.com/qelectrotech/qelectr … 31265077f5

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

rvamerongen wrote:

Now we are talking, this is what I need "This beg the question /request that I would like to save parts outside the elements library folder." but this will works even beter ( if I can export it easely )

So, I didn't read everything, but about the request, I am voting a plus1.

Maybe even unlimited libraries off a kind or per project base so we can export those and send it to a coworker. Look at the Kicad 'manage symbols' dialog with a list of external Libraries of element and then with a export function of the project and elements yes or no included. ( still busy with a recovery project from drawings to make them digital; am at 25% but it could be quicker with some technical help like this. )


About the element editor:
Please make the use of keystroke delete/forward delete equal in use in both editors ( sheet and element editor ).On the Mac it is not used consistent.

Thanks.

On file projet*.qet if you look the XML with a better text editor you saw element definitions is include in the project, open another project and on project tree collection you could load and share in your collection these new elements.

Regards,
Laurent

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

https://download.qelectrotech.org/qet/forum_img_2/imported%20element_new%20project.png

"Le jour où tu découvres le Libre, tu sais que tu ne pourras jamais plus revenir en arrière..."

Re: Feature-request: Second user-collection

@rvamerongen:
Als je al Nederlandse teksten invoert, is het geen grote moeite om de andere ook te veranderen.
Ik heb een paar andere Nederlandse teksten toegevoegd - misschien valt het je op...

PullRequest #276 with updated texts is placed.